Opinion Should India Drop F414 Engine Choice for Tejas Mk2 and Choose Rolls-Royce EJ200 or Safran M88?

Should India Drop F414 Engine Choice for Tejas Mk2 and Choose Rolls-Royce EJ200 or Safran M88?


India's Tejas Mk2 programme, a crucial step in modernising the nation's air power, is fundamentally linked to its choice of the American General Electric (GE) F414 engine.

While discussions occasionally arise about alternative powerplants like the Eurojet EJ200 or the French Safran M88, experts indicate that switching engines at this stage would be a complex, costly, and time-consuming process that could severely delay the fighter jet's deployment.

The Tejas Mk2 is being developed as a 4.5-generation multirole combat aircraft, designed to replace the Indian Air Force's (IAF) ageing fleets of Jaguar, Mirage-2000, and MiG-29 aircraft.

As a significant upgrade over the Tejas Mk1A, the Mk2 variant is designed for superior performance, featuring advanced avionics, an indigenous Uttam AESA radar, and a greater weapons payload.

At the heart of this enhanced capability is the GE F414-INS6 engine, which provides 98 kilonewtons (kN) of thrust, a substantial increase from the 84 kN of the F404 engine used in the Tejas Mk1A. This extra power is essential for the aircraft to achieve better agility, speed, and combat effectiveness.

The airframe of the Tejas Mk2 has been meticulously engineered around the specific dimensions, weight, and performance characteristics of the F414 engine.

Key components, including the air intakes, fuselage structure, engine mounts, and internal cooling systems, are all optimised for this particular engine.

This deep integration ensures the aircraft's aerodynamic stability, structural strength, and overall reliability.

Consequently, the Tejas Mk2's design is highly dependent on the F414, making any change a formidable engineering challenge.

Introducing a different engine, such as the Eurojet EJ200 (which powers the Eurofighter Typhoon) or the Safran M88 (from the Dassault Rafale), would require a complete redesign of the aircraft.

Despite the EJ200 offering a comparable thrust of 90 kN, its physical size, weight, and airflow requirements are different from the F414.

Adapting the Tejas Mk2 would involve re-engineering its core structure, from the air intakes to the tail section, and recalibrating its centre of gravity.

This process would effectively create a new aircraft variant, which would need to undergo a full cycle of development, testing, and certification, potentially delaying the programme by several years from its planned 2031 induction.

The decision to proceed with the GE F414 is reinforced by significant strategic and industrial factors.

In a landmark agreement finalised in June 2023 during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's state visit to the US, GE and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) signed a pact to jointly manufacture the F414 engines in India.

This deal includes an unprecedented 80% transfer of technology (ToT), a major boost for India’s goal of self-reliance in defence manufacturing under the 'Make in India' initiative. This agreement ensures a secure supply chain and builds critical aerospace expertise within the country.

Opting for a European engine would nullify this progress and present major logistical hurdles. A new deal would have to be negotiated with a different consortium, and it is uncertain if it would include a similar level of technology transfer.

Furthermore, the IAF's maintenance crews are already familiar with GE engines through the F404 used in the Tejas Mk1A fleet. Introducing a completely different engine family would require new supply chains, separate maintenance infrastructure, and extensive retraining of ground personnel, adding complexity and operational costs.

The Tejas Mk2 programme is operating on a strict timeline, with the first flight anticipated by 2027 and production scheduled to commence by 2031.

HAL plans to manufacture over 200 of these jets for the IAF. Any delay caused by an engine redesign would push the delivery of these much-needed aircraft beyond 2035.

This could worsen the IAF's current shortfall of fighter squadrons, which stands at around 31 against a sanctioned strength of 42, at a time when rapid modernisation is essential to address regional security challenges.

Ultimately, remaining with the GE F414 engine provides a clear and stable path for the Tejas Mk2 programme. The established partnership with GE not only secures the engine supply but also supports India’s domestic defence industry.

This synergy extends to future projects, as a more powerful variant of the F414 is also being considered for India’s futuristic fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

This consistency helps streamline development, production, and maintenance for India's next generation of fighter jets.
 
If we are going to discuss like this we will achieve nothing..... Let's wait for the sanctions or any embargo on us.... F-414 production line here would be a good choice.....

GE seems to be happy with our partnership..... Let's see our luck.....
 
Better late than never. MK II is already late, let there be some more delay but avoiding US is more sensible. India has to make arrangements for its shortage of squadrons somehow. Go for some Rafaels /some SU 57 on urgent basis as a Stop Gap measure. Make changes in MK II design now itself rather than waiting till the last.
Some Rafales ok..... I think Indians had forgot earlier clause signed in 2016 that Rafale will be cheaper if another 36 Rafael's are bought additionally....... Was it utilized while buying Rafale-M?
 
If we are going to discuss like this we will achieve nothing..... Let's wait for the sanctions or any embargo on us.... F-414 production line here would be a good choice.....

GE seems to be happy with our partnership..... Let's see our luck.....
Trump will not dare to sanction or penalize India anymore for the surety of loosing India entirely. All US allies and neutrals are waiting out his second term as they did his first. Elon Musk is right, he has over four decades against Trump's four years. GE is strong enough to get it's way against any political nincompoops.
 
Some Rafales ok..... I think Indians had forgot earlier clause signed in 2016 that Rafale will be cheaper if another 36 Rafael's are bought additionally....... Was it utilized while buying Rafale-M?
Those same ones signing earlier Agreements are more confident about their own abilities now, I'm sure they would have compensated admirably. Suddenly 2,000 ranges would be surpassed to protect brother Pakistan's airspace as well so our brother's hard working system pays off their debts quicker and makes life for Desis more satisfying.
 
Probable is honey trap personnel within DRDO who for some reason or the other likes the sweet while American funs.
 
Hundred Percent. We need to drop F414 engine deal. We have been constanly blackmailed after signing deals and US always backstabs on TOT even after paying hefty amounts. I feel better we need to go tith Safran as we alrereay Operate Rafales. We should Fast Track Kaveri engine ASAP and involve Private Partners . We cannot solely depend on PSU for engine development as we have wasted Huge amounts for engine development from last 30 years with No result. I think Its Better that we either go with Russian Idziliye engine or with Safran. The E2000 engine from European union is same case and they will not do any TOT even after signing agreements .. They lift their hands off after receving money Just like France who had offered Rafale source code earlier while signing and Backtracking now and reluctant to share code.. India should learn lessons and i think we are already late in learning lessons.
Sir, We Have to have a Strategic Mindset, being patriotic is ok but hard headed Nationalism is Fatal. If you want the project to be delayed beyong 2035 then only you would make such a comment.
 
Sir, We Have to have a Strategic Mindset, being patriotic is ok but hard headed Nationalism is Fatal. If you want the project to be delayed beyong 2035 then only you would make such a comment.
Dutta sirm This is Not the first time that US is backstabbing us and Backtracking on promises. We have multiple Options apart from US engines like EJ 2000 , Safran and Russian engines. US just Hypes that their enjines are superios and combat proven which i think is fake. They supported Pakistan and recently hosted Mullah Munir army chief. This shows what US does to India or other countries when they start rising. Russia has been friend and always supported us and we should keep this in Mind. The US Media propoganda about other countries engines and does fake narratives.. We should nbe realistic and we should think from Nationalism perspective... Not just donating money to US and not getting required tech transfers in last minutes
 
Dutta sirm This is Not the first time that US is backstabbing us and Backtracking on promises. We have multiple Options apart from US engines like EJ 2000 , Safran and Russian engines. US just Hypes that their enjines are superios and combat proven which i think is fake. They supported Pakistan and recently hosted Mullah Munir army chief. This shows what US does to India or other countries when they start rising. Russia has been friend and always supported us and we should keep this in Mind. The US Media propoganda about other countries engines and does fake narratives.. We should nbe realistic and we should think from Nationalism perspective... Not just donating money to US and not getting required tech transfers in last minutes
Theres no point in even replying to a message like this. But because I wish to clear up a few of the horrendous misconceptions you have, here it is: First. It is PHYSICALLY impossible to fit another engine into the Tejas. The airframe has been meticulously designed for for the f404/414. Any changes would require years more in redesign. Unviable. Second, it is not US propaganda or 'hype' that the engines are combat proven. They ARE. They are in service with multiple air forces and planes. The F414 is a highly reliable engine, which is why it was the preferred one. Third, we are not 'donating' money to the US. It is a commercial interaction. They sell engines we dont have, we buy. Its very simple, really. Fourth, cutting off ties with the US is a horrendous idea. We've been building relations and getting closer and closer, only disrupted recently because of Trump's second term, where he went ballistic. Fifth, I really dont know why many people have this misconception- Russia is NOT a reliable ally. Do you think they are gonna come to India's aid if it doesnt benefit them? They sell spares and weaponry at hugely inflated prices during times of need. And more recently, they have been severely hampered in their ability to provide spares for India's current fleet of Russian origin aircraft like the Su-30MKI, leaving several grounded for weeks. And for technology transfer? what a joke. Under the guise of 'Tech transfer' and 'Atmanirbhar bharat' they fleece India every. single. time. Su30MKI? Knocked down assembly, no real ToT. AL31P's. MiG-21's. You name it. Please, I implore you to read further into reality.
 
Theres no point in even replying to a message like this. But because I wish to clear up a few of the horrendous misconceptions you have, here it is: First. It is PHYSICALLY impossible to fit another engine into the Tejas. The airframe has been meticulously designed for for the f404/414. Any changes would require years more in redesign. Unviable. Second, it is not US propaganda or 'hype' that the engines are combat proven. They ARE. They are in service with multiple air forces and planes. The F414 is a highly reliable engine, which is why it was the preferred one. Third, we are not 'donating' money to the US. It is a commercial interaction. They sell engines we dont have, we buy. Its very simple, really. Fourth, cutting off ties with the US is a horrendous idea. We've been building relations and getting closer and closer, only disrupted recently because of Trump's second term, where he went ballistic. Fifth, I really dont know why many people have this misconception- Russia is NOT a reliable ally. Do you think they are gonna come to India's aid if it doesnt benefit them? They sell spares and weaponry at hugely inflated prices during times of need. And more recently, they have been severely hampered in their ability to provide spares for India's current fleet of Russian origin aircraft like the Su-30MKI, leaving several grounded for weeks. And for technology transfer? what a joke. Under the guise of 'Tech transfer' and 'Atmanirbhar bharat' they fleece India every. single. time. Su30MKI? Knocked down assembly, no real ToT. AL31P's. MiG-21's. You name it. Please, I implore you to read further into reality.
Its Up tp you to reply or not. I made my point and Thats it. The same goes with US. They do the same of exaggerating prices. Russia always stood by us when in need unlike US which took by Pakistan and supported them in Cold war by supplying weapons and try to destabilise India. US always does double standards when it comes to war on Terror. I Think India should start designing Figthers which can fit NON US engines... Thats only solution which India has going forward.
 
Its Up tp you to reply or not. I made my point and Thats it. The same goes with US. They do the same of exaggerating prices. Russia always stood by us when in need unlike US which took by Pakistan and supported them in Cold war by supplying weapons and try to destabilise India. US always does double standards when it comes to war on Terror. I Think India should start designing Figthers which can fit NON US engines... Thats only solution which India has going forward.
Wow. This is a true piece of art. Russia has always stood by us? lol. Here's one golden rule for geopolitics: There are no friends, ONLY mutual interests. If Russia was such a great friend to us, why'd they sell 70 mi-17s? RD-33 engines for the JF-17 Thunder? Kornet-E's? Why'd they sell Mi-35 choppers to em? I suggest you read up on history, instead of blindly believing propaganda. The US did not supply weapons to destabilize India: Pakistan was an ally and aided them against the soviets in Afghanistan, hence the weapons. Designing a fighter which can fit non-US engines is a very vague statement. Designing a plane based on a great engine is a good idea, whether it be American, Indian, or Japanese. Russia has NEVER been a good 'friend' as you call them. The aircraft carrier? price almost tripled. $974m --> $2.3bil, and India had to cough up the money since they were already more than halfway through. Su-30s? supplied India with knocked down kits for 'Assembly in India'. ToT? Promised but non-existent. India remained locked into russian ecosystems for spares, leaving us at their mercy whenever they decided to jack up prices when India needed it the most- and when they invaded Ukraine, that only exarcerbated. Why do you think the govt is moving away from Russian-supplied arms?
 
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If we can ignore US made goods. Try it first. It's 1000% good if stay away from US goods. They can play with us in politics corruption and every channel available. Their CIA is good for it.
 
Wow. This is a true piece of art. Russia has always stood by us? lol. Here's one golden rule for geopolitics: There are no friends, ONLY mutual interests. If Russia was such a great friend to us, why'd they sell 70 mi-17s? RD-33 engines for the JF-17 Thunder? Kornet-E's? Why'd they sell Mi-35 choppers to em? I suggest you read up on history, instead of blindly believing propaganda. The US did not supply weapons to destabilize India: Pakistan was an ally and aided them against the soviets in Afghanistan, hence the weapons. Designing a fighter which can fit non-US engines is a very vague statement. Designing a plane based on a great engine is a good idea, whether it be American, Indian, or Japanese. Russia has NEVER been a good 'friend' as you call them. The aircraft carrier? price almost tripled. $974m --> $2.3bil, and India had to cough up the money since they were already more than halfway through. Su-30s? supplied India with knocked down kits for 'Assembly in India'. ToT? Promised but non-existent. India remained locked into russian ecosystems for spares, leaving us at their mercy whenever they decided to jack up prices when India needed it the most- and when they invaded Ukraine, that only exarcerbated. Why do you think the govt is moving away from Russian-supplied arms?
Looks Like you are a US supporter.. I dont want to Argue with you ... You also Pls reasd the History of 1971 war what US did to India.. and What Russia did to India...I would suggest you also please go and Read the History and stop supporting US propoganda and dont act like a US Mouth piece. Every Indian knows whos is real supporter of India..
 
Looks Like you are a US supporter.. I dont want to Argue with you ... You also Pls reasd the History of 1971 war what US did to India.. and What Russia did to India...I would suggest you also please go and Read the History and stop supporting US propoganda and dont act like a US Mouth piece. Every Indian knows whos is real supporter of India..
But the US was ready to help India complete the development and modernization of the Marut, was ready to sell the F-6 Skyray armed with Sparrows and didn't object to potential deliveries of the Mirage III.
 
Looks Like you are a US supporter.. I dont want to Argue with you ... You also Pls reasd the History of 1971 war what US did to India.. and What Russia did to India...I would suggest you also please go and Read the History and stop supporting US propoganda and dont act like a US Mouth piece. Every Indian knows whos is real supporter of India..
Okay. I hear you. I see no point in continuing to attempt to explain or converse. However, I'll leave with this: I urge you to look into this topic to gain more insight and knowledge into it, as your perception is currently highly skewed. Thanks, and have a great day!
 

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